Scott Hansen and Jennifer Ortiz Interview - The Final on Vinyl Podcast

This was a lot of fun discussing the other side of music, specifically the engineering and production of Dolby Atmos, on the Wayo Hogan and Aritra C album, Flathead Lake: A Montana Album. Scott Hansen was the Producer, and Jennifer Ortiz was the Immersive Engineer

Keith "MuzikMan" Hannaleck

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:14

Hi everybody, this is Keith MuzikMan Hannaleck with the Final on Vinyl Podcast . And today we are with Scott Hansen and Jennifer Ortiz. Scott Hansen is uh in production and he was part of the release that came out August 5th from Way O'Hogan and our TRC. It's called Flathead Lake, a Montana album. And Jennifer uh had a very important role as well, being the immersive engineer for the Dilby Atmos version of this album. And uh these folks uh generously sent me these special headphones to listen uh to this album, uh which I thought was absolutely phenomenal in Dilby Atmos. It was the first time I actually listened to anything in Dolby Atmos, so now I'm very interested in hearing more albums in the future. Uh welcome aboard, folks.

Speaker 1:08

Thanks so much, Keith. We really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today.

Speaker 1 1:13

Well, thank you for coming. Uh this is uh a different type of interview for me. I usually interview the artists, so this is uh a different side of the music industry that I do like to talk about uh with artists generally, but uh you are two of the main people that had a part in this whole process, and it'd be great to understand exactly uh the process you went through for this album.

Speaker 1:38

Well, great. Maybe I'll start. We so I've spent a lot of time up in northwest Montana in the Glacier National Park area. I have family that lives up there. It's just one of the most spectacular places around. It it's a giant park that is part in the US and part in Canada, so there's two nations uh taking care of it. Um and so we wanted to express that area in sound. We wanted to make a record that you can hike into, but not have to take any bear spray, you know. And um Jennifer Jennifer Jennifer's role is um this is her or this is her domain is taking sound and turning it into all-encompassing um sound experiences. So we were really lucky when she agreed to work with us.

Speaker 1 2:29

Great. And I say you've entered the album in the best engineered and best immersive categories for the Grammys.

Speaker 2:37

Yes, sir. It's new for me. Uh Jennifer Jennifer has more experience with uh Grammy winning than I have, but um, it's exciting for me.

Speaker 2 2:50

Jennifer Um I do, I do have something to say. Um I've I I've I've been on audio engineering for ten years, mixing and recording, and Dolby Atmos has been basically a new format for myself to mix into. Um I've been mixing in Dolby Atmos for about five years. And I think it's it's an amazing experience as a listener and someone who is a fan of like certain artists or certain type of music. So having the chance to remix a song that's ha basically has already been mixed in stereo, but this time mix it in in a more immersive world. Um, I get very happy and hyped because I'm just like, okay, great, now let me recreate the the sound, let me recreate um the story, but not put it in in a world where people can listen to it and not only listen to it but imagine themselves being in this scenario.

Speaker 1 3:57

So I imagine it's more separation, more channels, more involved, right? Taking it from stereo to Dolby Atmos.

Speaker 2 4:06

Exactly. Um at we I usually work with some mixed stems. So when the stereo mixer is done mixing um the song and sends it out to re for mastery, what I receive are the mixed stems, and then ultimately I receive the stereo master, and I use the mixed stems to spread it in the room, as we say. And um there's there's different spots in the room that we can use. We can use in front of you, behind you, on the sides of you, and with Dolby Atmos, we're we're introducing um hype speakers, so now we have sounds coming over your head.

Speaker 1 4:48

So is it similar to the 7.1 surround sound uh at the movie theater? Would you say?

Speaker 2 4:54

It is. Yes, yes. Um we are basically now adapting from the movie sound into the music world. And I know we we used to mix I mean we still do too. We we mix surround sound um seven one. Um we're used to mixing that, but now because of Dolby Atmos and more advanced technology, we have the capability of using those height speakers like like in the movie theater where there you are you feel you're surrounded um with all these sounds and and and it helps with the picture when you're seeing a movie. Um Yeah.

Speaker 1 5:32

That's for sure. Yeah. So you've been working with this for five years, you said, right?

Speaker 2 5:38

I have for five years, and um the first two years were a little bit scary because the program itself, I use Pro Tools and I I combine it with Adobe Atmos soft software. And at the time it was very new, so a lot of the settings and compatibilities and just access to like equipment was was very s uh hard. So it took me a while to understand it. But after a few updates that Dolby Atmos um did with their software and also Pro Tools, it was way easier to use and more fun. And um during that time too, I was surrounded with by uh um peers that were also doing learning how to make some Dolby Atmos and and living in LA, there's just a lot of studios that are now formatting to Dolby Atmos. So I kind of was in that wave of like seeing all these studios build their own oh their own setups and having to be there to test out music or play back music. So um I I think I was introduced at a a r at a really nice uh moment in time in LA.

Speaker 1 6:48

Yeah, on the ground floor from and you you built from that. That's a pretty cool experience to have.

Speaker 2 6:54

Yes, it's it's very fun. I I I feel like um I'm playing a new video game.

Speaker 1 7:06

So Scott, w when did you come into the process?

Speaker 7:10

Sure, well I well the uh my family lives up in that part of Montana where Glacier National Park is, and I had this idea of why don't we do an acoustic piano uh album conveying this this um part of the country. We knew an a pianist up there named Whale Hogan, and he played for many years at this exclusive lodge on a bay called uh Big Fork Bay, and he was like the house musician, and he doesn't read music, he doesn't write music, he just plays what you know what he's inspired by. And so uh fortunately he said sure, he was up for uh making an album, and we found a little recording studio in a fellow's large house on a lake, really literally out in the forest. And um he had a grand piano and on the lake, every once in a while we'd hear a fly um float plane, I think they call them. They we come and land in the lake and then dock. And our s our studio was in a um like a garage for float planes. So the there were float planes off to one side and then the studio uh was in a corner, and it was really a very good studio, but it was about as rural as could be. Um so that that that album became an album called Montana Stillwater that we released last year.

Speaker 1 8:41

And then we covered that.

Speaker 8:43

Yeah, that was wonderful. Thanks for doing that. And so then then we had the idea. I had a friend in Germany who's she's a pop star in Germany, and she sent me an acoustic song, and I said, That's really cool. And she said, now you should hear the EDM version. So she sent me the same song, but now it was done in EDM style, and I was really blown away because it's the same song, but it had a totally different sound and a bigger energy. So what we did is we connected with an EDM engineer who happens to be in India. His name is Eretra C. He's the other album artist, and Eretra took a few of these acoustic piano songs that we had recorded out in the forest by a lake, and he added a beat, he added multiple stems, he just really energized them. And um, so I we we left out connecting with him, and then after that we connected with Jennifer, and so pretty soon we had this kind of international intercultural team, and I'm just happy as can be it turned out the way it did.

Speaker 1 9:52

So you use terminology for your industry now, EDM is immersive Dolby Mastering, right? Is that what that stands for? Yes.

Speaker 9:59

Well, it could. The way the way we used it was um the EDM is like electronic dance music. Didn't I say that right, Jennifer?

Speaker 2 10:08

Yes, I believe so. Electronic dance music, yes.

Speaker 1 10:12

Well I came up with a new one, all right? That's creative.

Speaker 10:19

So well our tracks never really got to the dance part. I wouldn't call them dance music, but definitely definitely we got the electronics and we got some percussion going there.

Speaker 1 10:29

So Okay. Now you call them stems. What what are stems? They're pieces of music that you put together. Can you explain?

Speaker 2 10:39

Uh yes. Um stems are basically each individual track, meaning uh each instrument in the mu in the song. So the first stem would be a piano, the second stem would be an acoustic guitar, the next stem would be uh violin, and so on and so forth. So I basically receive a multi-track of the uh all the multi-tracks of the songs and you know, th I just name uh I'm so I'm so used to calling them stems.

Speaker 1 11:12

Yeah, where did that come from? Who came up with that? Is that the end for something?

Speaker 2 11:17

Uh no, I I mean m multi-track stems. I I mean that would be the full word and uh used with like contemporary like pop and k pop and hip hop music. Um I I I don't think um, you know, a lot of people don't use analog boards anymore and they're most most of the time they're mixing or producing on their uh laptop, so I think just the phrase just became shortened to sim.

Speaker 1 11:45

I see. Okay. So I've noticed a lot of Adobe Atmos coming across my desk more and more. Um what do you think separated this from all the other formats? No, we've had SACDs, we'd have we had 5.1 surround sound and 7.1 surround sound with the movies. I mean uh all these different formats have have come and gone. This sounds like it's gonna stick around for a while.

Speaker 2 12:16

I think the the main besides the difference between like surround sound where it's like uh just speakers speaker uh um basically like instrument placement between each speaker uh each speaker which is around you that's around you. With Adobe Atmos you're more like they say immersed. So now we're playing not only with speakers around you, but we do have speakers above you. And with Adobe Atmos software, it's no longer a stagnant uh uh point of listening. It's more of like what they call an object base. So with the multitracks or with the instruments, you're able to float um each uh each sound between each uh side of the room and each speaker w with with in like with smooth fluidity without having any gaps in between. And I know with surround sounds it it's more stagnant and like you're basically just placing sounds in each speaker.

unknown 13:21

Right.

Speaker 2 13:22

So then again, in Dolby Atmos there's more fluid, so you'll you can hear the the sound float by every area of the room and above you without any gaps or spaces.

Speaker 1 13:35

Okay, that explains it. So typically uh for a stereo system, what would s somebody have in their room? How many speakers to listen to this properly?

Speaker 2 13:45

If you wanted to set up Adobe Ammo setup in your room or your living room, um a standard setup would be uh seven one four, which means seven surround speakers, one LFE, and then four high speakers. And that would be your standard setup, and obviously it goes up from there from it goes up to nine one four, nine one six, uh it could even go up to like sixty, I don't know, sixty-one all the way above. Like it could be a whole uh theater system. But the what's what's really awesome about Dolby Atmos is that because of the technology we have today, we don't need those kind of setups in our homes anymore. Um we can just buy a pair of headphones that has the uh Adolby Atmos capability, which um it has that technology where it involves head tracking. So once you listen to Adolby Atmos track on Apple Music or Tidal or Amazon, it activates that head tracking um technology and you're able to turn your head from left or right and and actually feel and hear these sounds kind of move around you.

Speaker 1 15:00

Oh, that's crazy. I I I plugged it into my computer and and and hit play with the um USB. And like I said, it was the first time I had tried that. And when you folks sent me that, I looked at the box and it said gaming headphones. I went, oh, okay. This is what they use. So I didn't realize that that that's what they used.

Speaker 2 15:24

Yeah, uh I mean obvious that a lot of these technology has is has been getting updated over the years, and um um there's a lot of headphone companies are now integrating their their headphones and updating their headphones to have surround sound mixing uh surround sound listening. Um I've even heard of a few home theaters where you only need maybe four speakers and you can select them through like your uh your your phone through an app and kind of allocate the speakers and and let the app know where they are where their position in the room and then it gives you like it emulates a surround sound feels um with that. So I feel like as we progress with technology and the consumerism and just the future of of technology, um a lot of our our children and young kids will have way more accessible to to a lot of this technology that that the immersive world and the gaming world um is working with right now.

Speaker 1 16:30

Now is that similar to like having the soundbar? I know I have one of those and the the box is underneath uh uh um a table with the soundbars in front of the TV and almost would emulate that surround. So is that the same idea you're talking about? Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:44

It is, it is, it is, it is. Yeah, it's a it's a it's the same idea. Now, now I'm pretty sure sound bar 0.2 or 0.5, the next version would have like an additional speaker um where you can like maybe put it behind you um on a table and then it'll give you that whole surround field.

Speaker 1 17:06

Very cool. I like hearing all this. So uh Scott, is there anything else you wanted to add about this whole process and uh going forward, what your plans are?

Speaker 17:17

Sure. Well, first I I want to give a shout out to our incredible artists, Leo Hogan and Eretra C. Um they're the ones who provide the the raw musical material that's just amazing that gave us something to work with. So no interview would be complete without thanking them front and center. I would just share a little story. We my wife and I took a tour of Glacier National Park a few months ago. Our guide was um uh a man from the Blackfeet Nation, and he told us about when he grew up as kids, they would they would play under waterfalls, they would hike up ridges, they would wander through the forest just hours in the cold water and looking at the big skies. And so I kept that in mind, and part of what we did with the Dolby Atmos was try to recreate a little bit through sound what uh the Blackfeet Nation guide was telling us about his childhood. And um, you know, so with this, you can at least listening to the Dolby Atmos album, you could play it on a drive or on a walk. I guess I guess you could even stare at your refrigerator and pretend it's a glacier. But um no matter where you are, no matter where you are, um you can still have this sense of of wonder that the uh immersive sound um projects.

Speaker 1 18:41

Amazing. This has been uh uh so much fun to talk to you folks, Scott Hansen and Jennifer Ortiz. You're a great team, and um I hope to hear more music that you're involved with in the future. Thank you, Keith. We really appreciate it. Yes, you both take care now. Bye bye. You too, bye bye.