Rapahel Groton (Leo and The Goat) Interview #3 - The Final on Vinyl Podcast

As always a wonderful converstation with Rapahel Groton! We discussed his latest project Leo and The Goat and the recording Shine.

Keith "MuzikMan" Hannaleck

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:14

Hi everybody, this is Keith MuzikMan Hannaleck with the Final on Vinyl Podcast. And today we are with Rapahel Groton. And what we're going to discuss is the first album by Leo and the goat, who's actually Raphael and his son Oliver. And the title of the album is called Shine. It was just released today on Bandcamp. And I narrowed it down to funk and instrumental and vocal, but there's a heck of a lot more going on in that album besides that, like jazz and blues and so forth. So welcome aboard again for your third interview. Thanks, Keith. Thanks for having me back. It's great to be here. Thanks for coming. So let's talk about this album. How did this all how did this all start and uh how'd you get your son involved? And what made you decide to go in such a different direction than from where you've been?

Speaker 3 1:10

Right.

Speaker 5 1:11

Well, well my son Oliver's 26 now, and I've been exposing him to all of the music that I love since he was in utero. You know, he was hearing it way back when. And getting his groove on, getting the thump on, you know. Um over the years he expressed interest as he grew up in music and was a avid listener and started learning guitar. As soon as I could teach him a little bit on garage band. We were programming some things and coming up with song ideas. He was probably around 10 at that point. So I started him, you know, as young as I could, and oh only if he showed interest. So over the years he started writing more, and we would get together now and then and make some things up. Eventually, as he matured, he went to UVM, my alma mater for computer science and grew into the engineer seat himself. So he's mostly there now. And we just said, you know, we have all this material, it's been accumulating, let's just put an album out. I've been putting all these albums out in these other genres. Let's just let's just do it, Oliver. I said, and we got excited and we we dove in, and it took a couple years to really hold material that um to what you hear on the album now. But you know, in terms of this genre, I I cut my teeth with Latin jazz funk bands in the 90s and 2000s in Burlington, Vermont. Big bands that I formed. I love move you know music that makes you move and and groove. Um so New Age music was actually a little that healing, the healing guitar music that I've been putting out was a little bit of um a segue for me. You know, uh it was where I began releasing professional music, but always in my heart has been funk and pop and folk and soul and Latin music, uh all this other stuff which listeners can expect to hear more of in the coming years. Music with a groove. Yeah, with with with a bigger sound, a little bigger sound, something that makes you sway, not just meditate.

Speaker 1 3:48

Well, I've got to tell you, man, I loved it. It it just so much went into this that you can tell. Uh with with all the different genres mixed in and every track standing alone, sounding different, and uh your guitar work and his guitar work. Um what other instruments came into play that each one of you played besides guitars?

Speaker 5 4:17

Well you know, the the way that we produced this music, only a couple of songs were together in the studio where we would l I I I would say, hey, I've got this guitar riff, let's put this down, and then oh, what kind of a beat would we program together with the with the MIDI drums like over that? And then mmm, some bass. We could put live bass or midi bass, and we start building things like that. But individually in our own spaces and studios, when we're producing music, we're gonna be using uh some of the live instruments like the guitar and bass, but uh a fair amount of uh program keys or some looped keys that you're gonna hear. A lot of this music it has that backbone of some tasty keys. Um the little flavors that you hear, we added like the flute or the medicine drum, um Rebecca's violin on a couple tracks. We just we added and my sacks, we added it later. So the the the core of the song was get you know, guitar, bass, drums, keys, uh maybe some other electronica, if you will.

Speaker 1 5:44

Now who's Rebecca? Let the fans know who this person is that contributed besides Oliver.

Speaker 5 5:50

My partner Becca, Rebecca Cotis, is uh the amazing violinist folks will hear on our album Unity. We joined together um five years ago we met, and we've been making music ever since. So I encourage folks to go and listen to listen to her violin work and add her voice, uh playing since she was four. So we just said, Hey, can you can you lay it can you lay down a lick here? And she just like whoop like first. Really nice to have. It's beautiful. Yeah, it's it's always it's always a creative, uh fun day when we're meeting and uh doing the studio sessions.

Speaker 1 6:44

I'm just curious to know um what are some of the funk bands you've listened to over the years?

Speaker 5 6:51

Yeah, good question. Uh I cut my teeth, uh started in in college really getting deeper into funk. I had some friends that exposed me to the likes of James Brown and Funkadelic Parliament P Funk. Oh yeah, Funkadelic. Uh roots. The meters. Love the meters and that that um the pocket funk, you know. Um the classic soul, like Marvin Gay, Curtis Mayfield, um Stevie Wonder. Um I got into the brand new heavies and sort of acid jazz in the 90s as well. Carrying the but then the jazz funk of like Herbie Hancock uh and Headhunters, you know, that seminal um really deeply inspired me. Uh Who Am I Missing? Sly in the Family Stone.

Speaker 1 8:00

Now when you think about funk, um at least the way I think about it, it's like it it's a branch off of jazz and blues, R B. How would you look at it?

Speaker 5 8:12

I think so. And there's you know, you could trace you could trace those routes back to R B. Some of those and and it it it wasn't even him as much as some of the players that were coming up with these riffs that just stuck and everyone keeps using because they were so funky. Like his drummer and his guitarist bass player. Um but then they call James Brown the godfather of soul. The godfather of soul.

Speaker 3 8:44

I know, you know, funk is this sort of thing where yeah, you get P funk, right, is really really drove that forward. Um P funk. P Funk, Parliament Funkadelic.

Speaker 5 8:59

You know, like the net it was funkadelic and then it w George Clinton kept it kept into Parliament P Funk.

Speaker 3 9:08

Um Clinton's music uh crazy.

Speaker 1 9:16

Crazy good too.

Speaker 5 9:17

Yeah, very complex. Yeah, these these guys they definitely inspired inspired us. Uh it's subtle. You know, all of all the different influences I've suggested. Uh you can hear, oh yeah, I could hear a little bit of that in there. And and but jazz but the jazz funk too, okay, I think that's a really important differentiation because headhunters, what they did, what he did was created these long form grooves that were these were jazz players, and then uh they all of a sudden they were like, oh, this is funky, whatever that meant, right? Then they just hit it for like nine minutes and and soloed over top of it. So it it it like gave the jazz musicians this this whole other uh you know pocket to play over rather than just the straight ahead swing. Uh so there's like two I see funk like to answer your initial question as like two branches off the same tree. There's the R and B and the soul and the more vocal stuff, and then there's the instrumental jazz funk, like the headhunters and the meters, um, although they had a lot of vocal too, I guess.

Speaker 1 10:34

Where do you think Miles Davis falls into all this, what all the things that he did since the 50s onward, and then you know, albums like Bitches Brew. Um does he I mean, do you look at him as somebody that was an influence on everybody in all the genres?

Speaker 5 10:54

Yeah, he's certainly a monster of the of influence. You know, there's like a it's a jazz fusion thing, right? Because I love Bitches Brew, but you gotta be in the right mood. You know, it's not something you're gonna put on and then grab your honey and start dancing to as as as easily. You know so he took it out further. I I see I see that for sure. And a lot of you know, you could even take it to band like the jam bands that that came out of that, like, whoa, where are we going here? You're really taking the out. And and but there's so like this intricate uh and in the case of like Bitches Brute, comp like really complex and maybe a little heady for those people who just want to like dance to P Funk. Right? It's a it's a different thing.

Speaker 3 11:48

Uh yeah.

unknown 11:51

Yeah.

Speaker 1 11:55

Interesting. I mean you start talking about the how you could just go on and on in the conversation and you start looking at all the branches that come off that tree, right? It's pretty amazing.

Speaker 5 12:06

Yeah. Because because the you know, the Curtis Mayfield and the Marvin Gay, like you arguably there's some funk in there, right? That whole that whole vibe too was another branch. Um really created something and it and that's where like that soul, I think, you know, it came more into the soul uh element, right?

Speaker 1 12:37

So is Oliver close to you or is he far away? So you have to, like you said, you just did one sit-down in the studio. Uh so you're transferring files back and forth, putting it together in the studio. Is he close enough to you to just drive down the road and jam or yeah.

Speaker 5 12:55

Yeah, so he's in Burlington. I'm in Bristol, we're about a little under 45 minutes away, straight shot, pretty easy. Nice Vermont drive to get there. Uh that's cool. So we would, you know, we would we tried to set it up for every week. Didn't didn't often hit that, you know. Um got busy lives. So when we, you know, when we got together finally, we had a lot of tracks to call through and say, okay, these are great rough tracks. And then we, you know, things we had produced on our own. And then we got together and said, Oh, let's pick these and now let's dive into it. Let's change the keyboard sounds, let's let's add some live bass, put the horns on it. So it was that's what our studio sessions would look like together.

Speaker 1 13:49

You realize how blessed you are to be able to do this with your son, right? I feel so blessed, Keith, and thank you for saying so.

Speaker 5 13:58

You know, to to share that with my boys, like I as a father, um, it's very fulfilling. Uh and and you know, honestly, because I've raised him and taught him, he's kind of like my 2.0, he's like my next gen. Like so he sits in the engineer's chair and I sit back. And I'm just because he's he's the compute you know, he he did the computer science degree.

Speaker 2 14:24

He's got his fingers on that keyboard like I I never will have. So he's just zipping all around, and I'm just like, yes. And we have one mind, and uh and like, oh, let's put a little more reverb on here, and then oh, pan it left.

Speaker 5 14:38

And it's really I I do feel so blessed to to share that with him for sure.

Speaker 1 14:44

Hang on to that. It'll keep you going, right? Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. So are you gonna put it on vinyl? When are you gonna do some vinyl?

Speaker 5 14:52

Oh man, the vinyl on vinyl. Uh are they making it from recycled plastic?

Speaker 3 15:00

Can you get that? 'Cause you know I don't know.

Speaker 5 15:05

I'm I you know we have to pick our battles and in this world uh uh uh technology and and uh material goods. I've been veering away from CDs, like only printing what I need to for radio promotion because of the plastic content. And I grew up vinyl, I grew up with my father's vinyl collection was enormous, you know. It was I still have some of it. But there's this idea that if we keep pressing it, do are we using new plastic? Are we creating more trouble for the future? Is it is it worth it? Um sort of a moral dilemma for me, because I I hear you, I love the vinyl.

Speaker 1 15:57

Well, you know, we have these massive recycle centers. I've been an acid recycler for God 35, 40 years now. And we go up every week and we dump all our plastics and we dump all our paper, get rid of the garbage, and I I'm always wondering, I wonder how much of that plastic actually does get recycled and where does it go? You ever wonder that?

Speaker 5 16:22

I have, and I've I've um I don't want to spread rumors because we're we're live here. I I've I've been discouraged with some of what I've found in terms of like how much actually they're able to use to recycle. You know, if it's not fully cleaned out. Um it it's I imagine it's labor-intensive, but you know, I'll just take this bug in my ear and I'll look into whether anyone's printing vinyl on recycled uh material and I'll I'll let you know.

Speaker 1 16:54

Yeah, that that's a really good question. And honestly, I never gave it a thought.

Speaker 3 17:01

No. And it's a good thought.

Speaker 5 17:05

We have to think of all these things. Our world is so complex. It's not you know I the plastic thing for me, about maybe 14 years ago, I saw this um little small documentary on Midway Island, which is in the in the middle of the ocean and is next to the great garbage patch. And it was showing like these albatross with like plastics filling their stomachs, and they're just like they're eating from this great garbage patch, and they're dying, and it's just like okay, we gotta like I said, we gotta choose our battles. That was when that was the year I said to my boys, we're traveling, I said, here at the gas station, let's look for something that's not in a plastic bottle to drink, you know, and we so yeah, we just like little things, okay. What can we get in glass? Yeah and and we've we've grown in our awareness as uh humanity, you know, starting to really understand what are the microplastics doing and how is it affecting if anyone saw that garbage patch and these this this filmmaker going and like going to the island and opening up dead birds and it's just like you're seeing old thick lighters and like I mean it's crazy. Toothbrushes how to get there. And if we knew what we were doing, would we make the same choices? If it wasn't so convenient because and that was 14 years ago, but now there are very few in glass at the g at the gas station. You know, very few.

Speaker 1 18:51

Um well oil-based product, so that's what drives it all. So Yeah, I'll give me start. Well, that's I know a lot of that's disappointing, and uh hopefully there's gonna be change and all that, and we do have the technologies for it, I know that, and it's always uh interesting to talk about these things. And um getting back to music um for you, um seems like you really took an exit as far as your your career trajectory um and all the albums I've covered. And are you gonna go back to the more meditative acoustic guitar music for your next album? Are you gonna continue on this path? Uh where are you gonna go from here?

Speaker 5 19:44

Good question. Yes, is the answer. I'm gonna continue to release albums in that healing genre, acoustic music. Um, and you know, I've got this long list of songs that just want to get recorded. Dozens of songs, literally. So I've got in the works, I've got an album with Rebecca, uh similar to Unity, but more vocal stuff. Oh, okay. Um more more vocal and instrumental, and well, I'm not gonna not gonna spoil it, but we might even have a a band name. Okay. We'll see.

Speaker 1 20:28

Oh, okay. You know what I really like a lot with the instrumental music is when you insert some orchestration and some wordless vocals, that seems to work really, really well. You know.

Speaker 5 20:44

We got so many ideas. So we've been to offering a lot of sound healing in our area, and we're starting to travel around and do that. So we'll music and sound healing, we'll play a few songs with guitar and violin, and then we'll go into gong and crystal bowl and medicine drum and rattle and all these things that have been playing for decades. Um, yeah. There's an album of that in the works too, like just a straight-up sound healing meditation journey album. Um but while we've been doing this, we've been developing this material, I've been writing these songs with more lyrics again. And, you know, just poignant, simple messages. Uh, I think you'll enjoy it. It sort of carrying from Unity. I've got this, I've got this idea, and it's Unity brought us here. Leo and the goats just popping out like some rogue baby, right? But there's there's there's still a whole body of work with Rebecca that will show itself, including a folk album, a Latin album. Um there's there's more it it it won't s Leo and the goat won't seem as rogue when the listeners gets to hear, oh, he he actually has all of these genres, he's just been saving them. He's been keeping it. I wanted to first release the guitar, just the guitar. This is how I wanted people to first get to know me. In that healing solo guitar sense that I've been cultivating for ten years. And now I'm sort of branching out, you know, as you see with some of my releases like Star Lullaby or Unity, uh bringing in other players and making the sound bigger. I wouldn't be surprised if in future years there's an orchestra involved in some of my recordings because I I as an arranger and a composer I hear it all. I just haven't uh found the benefactors yet. So w any benefactors in this lifetime listening who are interested in fully supporting this this uh peaceful music out in the world, I'm I'm available.

Speaker 1 23:03

All right then. Another entirely different realm and layer of music you'd be adding. And that to me sounds uh very interesting, and I would anticipate hearing all these different recordings you're gonna put out. And thank you again. It's always great talking to you, Raphael. And just as a reminder to the fans out there, Raphael Groton and his son Oliver have released Leo in the Go. It's called Shine. It's out today on Bandcamp. And um, I will be getting the word out about this interview and the review tomorrow. And I thank you again, sir, for your time and your music. And I wish you the best for the rest of the year, and uh we'll be in touch.

Speaker 5 23:56

Thank you so much, Keith. We certainly will be in touch. Much love to you and all.

Speaker 1 24:02

Same to you, same to you, my friend. You take care.

Speaker 3 24:06

Well do. Ciao for now. Bye bye.